faUSt

2016.5.16

受访者 Interviewee
Werner “Zappi” Diermaier
Jean-Hervé Péron
Maxime Manac’h

采访者 Interviewer
李桐慧 Anla Lee

Anla - A; Jean-Hervé Péron - J; Werner “Zappi” Diermaier - Z; Maxime Manac’h - M

A：非常感谢你们的演出。能邀请到faUSt参演音乐节，我们倍感荣幸。我们常听你们的专辑，而对许多中国乐迷来说，这是他们第一次看到你们的现场演出，你们精彩的演出也不负众望。
J：谢谢你们邀请了我们。我们也很高兴，且很荣幸，能够收到来自离家这么远的地方的邀请。谢谢你们。

A：演出中你播放了一些不断重复的句子，比如“圆形是美的（rund ist schön）”，还有中文的“这条路是正确的”。这些句子是什么意思呢？
J：这么说吧，一方面，它们有哲学上的意义，而另一方面，它们又毫无意义。这是达达主义。
所以，如果我说“rund ist schön”，那是因为它的发音——“rund - ist - schön”——它里面包含了不同的声音，而我喜欢这点。至于哲学层面，它的确如此，一切圆的东西都是无害的。你看，这是一个角，如果我的头撞上了它就会很疼，而如果它是圆的那我就不会受伤。圆形是美的。再比方说，怀孕的女人……当她们孕育一个新生命的时候，是圆的。很美。圆是永恒的。它无始无终。这就是为什么我选择了这个句子。其实这个句子是我们让阿飞录的，这样听众们就能听得懂。因为或许你们中的一些人会说英语，但有一部分观众是不懂的。我希望确保他们能尽可能明白我们所表达的东西。
关于另一句，“这条路是正确的”，则有更多的达达主义哲学的成分在里面。它也是鼓舞人心的。无论你走哪条路，无论你选择了哪条路，音乐上，亦或是生活上、政治上、工作上，无论你选择了哪条路，你都应该这样想：“这条路是正确的。这是我的路，是正确的路。”所以说，这是一个积极正面的想法。

A：我看过一些你们现场演出的视频。你们经常邀请其他的音乐家加入演出，比如一些当地的音乐家、平面艺术家和舞者等。我们发现，无论哪个和你们合作的人都有非常强烈的faUSt的气质。对此，你们怎么看？以及你们是如何选择这些要合作的艺术家的？
Z：是的，每一位我们邀请的嘉宾似乎都有些faUSt的音乐元素在里面。有时候是音乐家主动联系我们并提出想要共同演出，大部分是我们已经有一个想法了，因为我们了解这些艺术家的音乐，便邀请他们一同演出。你看的是哪些视频？
A：BBMix音乐节的现场，还有Market Hotel的现场。还有一些近期的演出视频。
J：在Market Hotel……是的，在布鲁克林。我们邀请了Ysanne Spevack。她演奏小提琴。我们是在洛杉矶认识的。你知道，现在有了网络和电话，沟通变得更加便利了……我记得了，啊哈。她住在布鲁克林。我们是在洛杉矶认识的，但她住在布鲁克林。我们来布鲁克林演出，所以可能我就邀请了她。
Z：还有一个女孩，Christine，我的一个朋友。她住在布鲁克林，也是一个纽约的乐队的歌手。她拜访了我们，我便问她是否愿意和我们一起唱一首歌。Jean-Hervé和她讲了关于这首歌的故事。所以，是的……我喜欢这样做。她就上了台，和我们一起唱了一小段，可能就三分钟吧。
J：总之，大多数的情况下这些是自然发生的。这种随性对faUSt来说非常重要。

A：为什么这次你们选择了灰野敬二作为嘉宾？
J：因为他是我们很好的老朋友。我们是在1994年相遇的，在旧金山，我们参加Table of the Elements[1]的同一个展示会。当时我们正在进行美国巡演。灰野敬二当时还年轻。我们在旧金山表演《It’s a Rainy Day》的时候，他直接跳上了舞台，然后发出“Whoooo！”这样的声音。自那以后，我们就有了某种共鸣，某种联系。他某种程度上可以说是疯狂的。他是一个伟大的艺术家。我想我们也是有点疯狂的。所以我们有共同点，灰野和faUSt之间有一些相同的东西。

A：你们能聊聊和灰野敬二在死谷的第一次合作吗？
Z：那是在加利福尼亚，在一个沙漠里，我们每个人站在一个山丘上。我们把这场演出命名为“Long Distance Calls”，用非常简单的乐器，或者就只用人声。灰野只唱；我则用一根金属管，把它扔到空中然后再接住它。我记得在山丘上，灰野就站在我旁边，有一次金属管砸到了他头上……不过没事，这对他来说不是什么问题。那里非常非常热。我记得在90年代，灰野总是戴着墨镜。永远都戴着，无论是在室内还是室外。而在沙漠里，烈日炎炎的，他却没戴。
J：他就像是在唱反调。太阳很大的时候，他就不戴墨镜，而在根本没有太阳的夜晚却偏要戴。或许这也是达达吧。
Z：嗯，很有趣。

A：我们觉得你们的现场演出和你们的专辑有很大的差别。从近期的视频里看来，你们使用了一些不常见于舞台的设备，比如煤气罐、水泥搅拌机、石头、热水壶等等。你们为什么要这样做？
J：嗯，首先，我得说，艺术家们可能并没有确切地意识到自己究竟为什么要做这些事情。那是来自内在的。它们可能来自你的肚子，或者心脏，但很少是来自头脑的。那不是一种计算。当然，有一些艺术家会那样做，但很显然我们不会。

不过，与此同时，我们发现了它背后存在着一些原因。比如我们在舞台上安排了织毛线的女士们，是有很多原因的。心理层面上说，我们喜欢把观众置于一个不平衡的状态。观众不应该觉得“这是正常的”。他们应该想：“发生了什么？这是什么？这不正常。”然后他们就会投入其中。他们处于不平衡的状态，这不是日常生活。所以，“我们必须认真听，必须认真看”。总之，这某种程度上是一个心理学的伎俩，但它也拥有相当强的冲击力。这些织毛线的女士们会让你想起一些非常原始的东西，让你想起你的母亲在织毛线的场景，以及你小时候的世界，一切都很安宁，而你感到安全。因为这种织毛线的场景而产生了一种安宁的感觉，就像牛在吃草，那种气味……这种安宁让你感到舒服。这就是为什么我们要这样做。观众入场时，他们是非常兴奋的，但他们见不到faUSt，只能见到这些织毛线的女士，安宁。这让他们专注。

你也提到了水泥搅拌机。水泥搅拌机也是充满了符号象征的。非常强悍，极具象征性。它就像是永恒。因为有了水泥搅拌机，你就能建造房屋，建造文明。它们被不断地建立起来，建立起来。然后，嘭！一段时间之后，全部轰然倒塌。文明瓦解。然后它们再一次生长。家庭就是一个巨大的文明，它们无处不在。然后，“嘭！”，它们倒塌了。成吉思汗曾经多么伟大，铁蹄踏遍世界。倒塌了。然后它们又一次卷土重来，又一次土崩瓦解。这就是永恒。就如同水泥搅拌机所做的那样，它不断地转动、转动、转动、转动……建造房屋，倒塌，然后再建。永恒。这就是原因。关于水泥搅拌机我还能说很多，不过现在就到此为止吧。还有，在水泥搅拌机和织毛线的女士们之间也有着强烈的对比——一个是非常坚硬、野蛮、工业的，一个则是非常柔软而日常的。

至于煤气罐，有两个原因。视觉上它给人有点危险的感觉，但主要是为了它的声音。他（指Maxime）是煤气罐专家。他热爱金属的声音，他喜欢那些粗暴的声音。他总是和这些东西作战，工业、声音，还有金属、钢铁、机械……Maxime很喜欢这种。Maxime的另一面是hurdy-gurdy，非常柔软，非常复杂而又优雅。
Z：我们现在演出时用的工具和设备比起十几二十年前已经少多了。我们以前用更多的工具来创作音乐，比如蒸汽锤、凿岩锤、发动机汽缸等等，为了它们的声音。比如说发动机汽缸，“throoom-iiiillllll”（模仿它的声音），还会有火花。那声音就像是人在哭。人们听到了就会想：“我是不是也该哭？”它听起来像是一种尖锐的哭声，你只要用工具就能发出这种声音。我想是从三年前开始吧，我们总是用水泥搅拌机，有时候用发动机汽缸，但不再用那些能弄出火来的大型机器了，太危险了。比起十年前，对于这些东西在舞台上的使用的管制更加严格了。
J：为了健康与安全。没有火花，没有火，没有气，啥也没有。他们想要faUSt，他们想要这个恶魔，但不想要危险。所以我们只能选择一条折衷的路。而我必须说，在这儿，在中国，深圳——这是我们第一次在中国演出——我们把一切都做了，以告诉大家faUSt回来了。我们知道，你们作为主办方为此承担了很多的风险，因为你们接受了我们所有的要求。水泥搅拌机，“好的！我们去弄来！”；织毛线的女士，“没问题！”；煤气罐，“好！有！”；所有的一切，所有的，“好的！好的！我们尽力试试！”……所以，我们要给音乐节，给B10现场一个大大的感谢，谢谢你们如此高效而友善的配合！
A：我们也希望为这场演出尽我们所能做到最好，因为这是你们的中国首演，对我们而言也意义重大。
J：你们的确做到了。完美。我们非常、非常、非常、非常开心。非常开心。由衷地感谢。我们几个都是这么想的。

A：谢谢你。我想说，我在采访灰野敬二时也问到了关于他在演出开始前让我们播放了俄罗斯小提琴家Mischa Elman的CD的问题。那音乐非常舒缓，灰野说他希望观众进入到一种平和的状态，然后观看演出。这和你们刚才说到的关于织毛线的女士的想法是有些相似的。
J：确实是很相似的想法，是的！是一致的。先让人们安宁和专注，然后大家就为即将到来的一切做好了准备——混乱、幸福、愉悦、生机勃勃、荒诞不经……对，灰野的这个想法很棒。

A：你曾说过，你觉得“表演就是在舞台上的日常生活”，是这样吗？
J：没错。是的！啊，你记得我说过这话。确实如此。当你把日常生活放到舞台上，它就变成了表演；当你把表演放在舞台上，它就平平无奇了。而我们喜欢荒诞。我们喜欢达达。

A：你们和灰野共同演绎了一首歌，我们知道那首歌的歌词来自你女儿的诗作。我们也问了灰野关于这个的问题，他觉得歌词很有趣。你也提到过你让你的女儿接手了你的Avantgarde Festival[2]。你能和我们聊聊你的女儿吗？
J：当然可以。Jeanne-Marie是一个……当她还是个婴儿，甚至当她还在她妈妈肚子里的时候，她就已经和faUSt在一起了，已经和我们一起巡演了。所以，她了解前卫音乐，了解faUSt，了解那个音乐节。这伴随她的整个人生，是她与生俱来的。甚至早在1994年，她4岁的时候，就和我们一起经历了整个巡演。
灰野敬二完全被这个小宝贝迷住了，而她总是“噢，Keiji，Keiji”地一天到晚跟在他屁股后面。在纽约，在一个叫Knitting Factory的场地，Jeanne-Marie病得很严重，她发烧了。灰野敬二把所有人赶出了后台，说：“走！走！走！走！只留下Jeanne-Marie。”Jeanne-Marie和灰野。而他就握着她的手，像这样。一直握着。（握住Zappi的手作示范）所以，总之……是的，Jeanne-Marie理解这种音乐。对她来说，这一切都是自然的。她生来就是这样。
她现在26岁，是一个学有所成的艺术生，目前正在攻读硕士学位。我们已经经营那个Avantgarde Festival有18年了，有点厌倦了。它需要耗费非常、非常多的精力。嗯，你们明白的，明天音乐节也是这样的吧。它需要非常多的精力与金钱。所以我们说：“Jeanne-Marie，你来接手这个音乐节吧，用你的方式来做。”于是她就用现在年轻人的方式来经营它。不在单一地点，也不集中在一段时间，他们现在把这个音乐节放在许多不同的地方，在一年中的不同时期举办。变成一个个小的音乐节，到处都有，不同时间。
关于那首诗，它叫《Harlekin》。Harlekin就是丑角，笨蛋。她写了这首达达主义的诗歌，然后我知道灰野把它翻译成了日文。我们在B10现场表演这首作品的时候，他用日文唱，我则用法文。我觉得这是一首好诗，它是达达主义的，也是激浪派的。
A：我们也喜欢那首诗。
J：谢谢。我会转达给Jeanne-Marie。我会把所有这些都转达给她。

Harlekin
ハーレクイン　道化師
Lyrics : Jeanne-Marie CC Varain

Ring, dig a Ding Ding Dong
Baaa, dada Ding, dig a Ding Ding Dong
Wa, Raaa, dada radada
Ding Dingaling Ding Dong

I am a prophet from outta space
私は宇宙空間からきた預言者だ
Bringing my reality
私の真実を
Down to earth
地球へともたらす
Some may wonder, some may walk
戸惑う者もいれば、歩き去る者もいるだろう

Ring, dig a Ding Ding Dong
Baaa, dada Ding, dig a Ding Ding Dong
Wa, Raaa, dada radada
Ding Dingaling Ding Dong

You are asking all these questions but never listen
君はいろんな質問をするが、答えを聞こうとはしない
This may be a game and you will never know it
これはゲームのようなもの、君には決してわからないだろう
I teach you the rules in a language you never heard before
私は君が今まで聞いたことのない言語で君にルールを教える

Ring, dig a Ding Ding Dong
Baaa, dada Ding, dig a Ding Ding Dong
Wa, Raaa, dada radada
Ding Dingaling Ding Dong

Do you really believe in anything else than power of RAAAAAAAAAW?
君は RAW: 生、裸、未加工の力（raw power で剥き出しの力）以外の何かを本当に信じているのか？

Ring, dig a Ding Ding Dong
Baaa, dada Ding, dig a Ding Ding Dong
Wa, Raaa, dada radada
Ding Dingaling Ding Dong

I have seen this street before
私はこの通りを以前見たことがある
I have walked this alley back and forward
この路地を歩いて行ったり来たりしたことがある
Watch me dance
私が踊るのを見ろ
Watch me fall
私が落ちるのを見ろ
I am the Ghost
私はゴーストだ

A：你们对14日faUSt专场（灰野敬二为嘉宾）和15日的“明天即兴”演出怎么看？
Z：关于faUSt的那场，那是我们自己的风格。我们在演出之前列好了歌单，但实际上整个演出并不是完全按照歌单来的。有一些变动。那是一场普通的faUSt的演出。和我们之前在美国巡演所做很接近，但是……
J：精神是一样的。
Z：是的。演出本身以及音乐是很不一样的。所有演出都是不一样的。
至于15日的演出，我想应该是灰野敬二的主意。灰野希望让它像一个乐队表演，他给我们信号告诉我们什么时候要演奏——不是要演奏什么，而是什么时候演奏。他用一种爆炸般的方式来演绎这场即兴。我记得有一段他在弹奏很柔和的吉他，然后突然之间“现在！”（非常大声）。他的这种情绪感染了台上的每个音乐人，所以大家都“嘭！”。四处爆炸。他做得挺好的。这是我第一次听从他人的指挥来演奏——“你现在该演奏了。你现在停下。”这是我人生第一次这样，做音乐的这50年来。
J：我曾经无数次尝试和Zappi说：“如果你在这会儿开始演奏会比较好。”他会说：“不，我想什么时候演奏就什么时候演奏。”“如果你演奏这种可能比较好……”“不！我想演奏什么就演奏什么！”他从来不听。我和他认识了50年了，我真的试了无数次。然而现在灰野来了，说：“开始演奏。”Zappi就……
Z：是呀。这个方式奏效了。我其实是能这样做的——偶尔。（众人笑）

A：在舞台上，当灰野指向你，你必须立刻响应，尤其是在Jean-Hervé负责的人声部分。我们很好奇，你们怎么能反应得如此迅速呢？
J：嗯，我们怎么说也是专业的，而且这不是我们第一次这样做了。另一方面，我个人非常喜欢讲故事。你看，我有5个小孩，所以生活中我讲过非常、非常、非常多的故事，而且我喜欢这样做。或许有一天我该专门为小孩子们写故事或者讲故事。灰野也知道这一点。他自己想担当人声，同时还想要另一个人声，因为人声在音乐中是很重要的。这和文本无关，和内容无关，而是关于你声音的频率。它和其它任何乐器都不一样，而且能打动人心。它能够触动你的这儿（心脏），而不是这儿（脑袋）。
Z：它是一种直接的乐器。直抵人心。
J：所以，对我来说，这样做并不难。在我上台之前，我已经想好了主题。我选择了一只大蟾蜍爱上了一只青蛙的主题。接下来，就自然产生了。剩下的就是讲出这个故事，很简单，它就这样流淌出来，流淌出来，流淌出来，流淌出来……
A：这很有趣，虽然我们听不太明白法语。
J：这不重要。主要是频率、措辞、表达……文本内容不重要。

A：是的。你曾说，从一开始到现在，faUSt在德国都没有很多的听众。那么，对于此次在中国这么一个和德国完全不一样的国家的首次演出，你们有过什么预期或想法吗？
Z：是啊，我们的音乐在德国确实没有引起很大的兴趣，从一开始就是这样。我不知道为什么。有些人说那是因为我们的音乐就来自本土，没有外来的音乐那么有吸引力。不过我不这么认为，很多德国乐队也在本土获得了成功啊。我真的不知道为什么。没人知道。或许是因为我们最初是在英国制作的专辑吧。或许这是原因。早年我们在英国比在德国有名气得多。
关于中国……我不知道在中国什么是可以做的。我不了解这里的法律。在台上制造火焰是被禁止的吗？或者说是被允许的？我不知道。我知道日本，在日本是可以的。在日本我们几乎可以做所有我们想做的事情，没问题。中国就有点不一样，所以我不知道。不过，让我很惊讶的是，这里非常地自由。我没想到中国是如此自由的。我感到很自由。
J：我没有任何预期，因为除了我在欧洲听闻的那些，我对中国一无所知。当然，我们听说过各种各样关于中国的事情。我听说过你们的音乐节。你们邀请的艺术家是比较前卫、先锋的这种。所以，呃……我曾想过一点点：我们能在这儿做到什么程度呢？我们能说多少呢？然而我发现，当我们真的来到了这里，就像Zappi刚刚说的，一切都挺顺利的。你可以和人们讲话，你可以做各种各样的事情，你知道。我在这儿没见到一个警察会跑过来抓着我们看证件什么的。我也没有见到任何人跑来说：“别乱讲话，否则抓你们坐牢！”这事儿我感到抱歉，但这些对于中国的看法确实存在。很多人就是这样看中国的，在这里你不能说话，不能做这做那。而我们——就如Zappi刚才所说——非常惊讶这里有如此的自由。这就是我们的想法。
而且这里的人们非常的友善。在德国或者甚至是在法国，如果你走在街上，冲不认识的人笑，人们可能会起疑心。“你想干什么？”而在中国这里，男女老少……我路过的时候喜欢对人微笑，我对很多人微笑了，而这里的人们总是、总是也对我报以微笑。还有，刚到的时候，我的护照、钱和手机什么的都到处乱放，而很快我发现这样做是没什么问题的，我可以把钱扔这儿，手机扔哪儿，夹克扔这儿……总是会有人来提醒我：“嘿，你东西落这儿了。”
今天早上——这就是我早上突然离开的原因——我手机。我不知道我把我的手机忘在哪儿了。我请求一位说中文的女士帮我打我的电话，希望有人会接起来。她打过去，那边立马就接了，说：“是的，我找到了你的手机。我怎么拿给你？”我们就说：“我们住在这边的酒店。”“好的，我两分钟到。”我意思是，你可以试试在德国这样做。或许你能找回你的手机，也或许不能。如果你扔一堆钱或者别的什么在桌上……
Z：百分之九十的可能性会丢。
A：其实在这里也是一样的。
J：是吗？
A：你们只是比较幸运。
J：噢，好吧。你在摧毁一个美梦！
（众人笑）
J：不过，这个印象还是会保留在我的脑海中。
A：不同的城市有不同的文化。深圳是一个年轻的城市，比较开放。
J：噢，是这样。

A：在关于你们乐队的描述中，我们常常能看见“krautrock（泡菜摇滚）”这个词。尽管我们在你们过去的一些采访中看到，你们并不喜欢这个定义，但作为宣传者，我们还是会用到它。大家都在用，人们说你们是这类音乐中做的最好的。你们怎么看？
Z：我真的不知道什么是“krautrock”。对我来说，我很难区分哪个是“krautrock”，哪个不是。很多人说70年代在德国创造和演奏的音乐就是krautrock，但我不这么认为。比方说，人们说Kraftwerk是krautrock，但他们的风格和我们很不一样。那为什么他们是krautrock，我们也是krautrock呢？我不知道。我不需要这个词，“krautrock”。
J：是的，这个词其实是有点无礼的。“kraut”这个词是二战期间英国人对德国人的蔑称，你知道，因为他们觉得德国人吃很多很多酸泡菜，但事实并非如此，只有德国南部才是那样的。总而言之，它带着点冒犯的意味，这就是为什么我们不喜欢它。就像如果我们把中国的音乐称为“slit-eye music（眯眯眼音乐）”一样，是很失礼的。所以，我们试着用幽默的方式来接受它，我们甚至还作了一首歌，就叫《Krautrock》。你叫我们krautrock，好呗，那我们就来“krautrock”你！“krautrock”对我们来说大概就是这样。我更愿意我们的音乐被称为实验音乐。不过“krautrock”，其实……当然，宣传者用“krautrock”这个词是没问题的，因为在媒体上人人都知道这个词。所以说，用“krautrock”是无伤大雅的。这不是最好的主意，但没关系。完全没问题。
Z：关于什么是“krautrock”，我曾问过一个英国人，他认为是那种有一个不断循环的旋律，并且在这个循环中加入很多噪音、不同的噪音的音乐。或许这就是krautrock吧。
J：你知道Tony Conrad吗？他过世了，愿他安息。他是创造了“minimalism（极简主义）”这个音乐流派最早的那批音乐家之一。但这东西本身并不是他发现的。没有任何人发现了任何东西，它早已存在了数百万年。极简主义无处不在，蒙古人、因纽特人，还有他们之间的……因为他们没有很多的乐器，却有很多的时间。他们必须玩儿点什么，免得死于无聊，而他们又没有足够的乐器，因此他们创造的音乐就非常简单，极简。不过Tony Conrad、The Velvet Underground、John Cale等等的各路人物把它发扬光大了。所以说，在krautrock里面我们也有一些minimalism——这就是刚才Zappi所说的，比如一些非常简单的节奏，“do-boom-do-doom, ku-chi-ka-doom-doom, ku-chi-ka-doom-doom…”，又或者是一个单音，“boom, boom, boom, boom…”。总之，这已经足够触发你内心的某些情绪了，剩下的就都在你的脑子里进行——是你在创作这个音乐，我们只是扣动了扳机。有一些音乐人会在这种循环里面加入任何他们想要加的东西，因为里面空间很大，你可以放很多东西进去。（作为听众的）你自己的东西，还有音乐人的。

A：你们认为自己是嬉皮士吗？
J：我是。
Z：在60年代，我觉得我是个嬉皮士，但到了70年代中期，我觉得我不是。嬉皮士其实并不真实。
J：你说什么？
Z：60年代的嬉皮士都在撒谎。
J：去你的，老兄！
Z：很多嬉皮士说：“我如此自由！我可以做任何我想做的事情！”但他们的内心却并非如此。
J：好吧，我原谅他。我是个嬉皮士，而嬉皮士是宽容的。他在胡说八道。他不了解嬉皮士。
M：我不是嬉皮士，绝对不是。
J：所以我是这里的唯一一个。
M：当然，我是喜欢嬉皮士的。不过Jean-Hervé，你也不是嬉皮士啊。
J：可我有一件嬉皮的夹克。我有一只狗。我喜欢赤脚走路。
M：但你比很多的嬉皮士要积极向上，而且比他们更有智慧。
J：好吧，好吧。
Z：你没有自由的性爱。
J：但我很乐意有啊。
Z：你只能是很乐意“有过”。
（众人笑）
J：好吧，你看看，所以说这是一个复杂的问题。总之，大多数时候，当有人问我们问题，我说是，他就说不是，我说你好，他就说再见。而我们已经这样相处了50年啦。
A：或许这就是你们能够长久相处的秘诀呢。
J：或许吧。

A：你们认为你们的音乐有受到60年代英美摇滚乐的影响吗？
J：呃，没有……好吧，即使是受到了影响，也是一种我们并不想要的影响。不，不。我们没有受到英美摇滚的影响。
Z：在我们年轻的时候，在我们十六七岁的时候，或许有吧。就我个人来说，我多少是有受到这类音乐的影响的，是的。那时候人人都在听The Rolling Stones啊。或许你不是吧……
J：哦不，不，不。派对啊，跳舞啊，出去玩的时候啊，作为一个人，是有的，但作为艺术家的话，就是另一回事了。当你去蹦迪，你知道，你想跳舞，你想尽情玩耍，你不会想艺术创作。但作为音乐人……当然，我也听过各种各样的摇滚乐，并且我很欣赏他们。我不是那个意思，你知道。像Gene Vincent、BB King，还有所有那些真材实料的艺术家们……像Elvis Presley之类的我就不好说了，那是另一回事。
Z：不过我们并没有想过要玩这种音乐。
J：在那个年代有很多好的艺术家，比如说David Bowie，他是个伟大的人物！再比如说Frank Zappa，他的摇滚乐充满智慧。我受到过影响，我想faUSt里的每个人都是如此。受到某一些艺术家的影响，我承认。但是，针对你的问题，我得说，我们没有受到英美摇滚的影响。恰好相反，我们决定要避开他们的结构和他们的歌词。Captain Beefheat，Frank Zappa，都很好。都是很好的人。

A：有人说，作为一种艺术形式的摇滚乐在70年代已死。而如今，网络和科技正在杀死音乐人的想象力，杀死他们的才华。现在所有的音乐都是娱乐。你们对此怎么看？
J：呃，你提出的这个问题里面，的确有一些是真的。这很有趣，是的。现在制作和分享音乐的方式已经有了翻天覆地的变化。但就像生活中的万事万物一样，有阴有阳。有积极的一面，也有消极的一面。有冷，有暖，诸如此类。
数码世界存在这样的一个风险，那就是人人都能创作音乐，但这并不意味着这音乐就会是有意思的。但是任何人都能够去做了。你只要上Bandcamp或者随便什么东西，随便敲几下，“嘭”，一首歌就出来了！在现在这一切都是可行的。然而那是好的音乐吗？我不确定。另一方面，那些真正投入到音乐的艺术家们，那些真正意识到自己的责任的艺术家们……艺术家对于他们的观众是要负责的。你在传递信息。这就像和小孩子们说话，如果你对他们说了错误的事情，他们也会相信你的。所以，你得确保你不要把垃圾输送给人们。
数码的制作方式扩展了可能性。你可以创造新的声音。有更多的乐器任你发挥，而且在一个很小的空间里就可以达成——在你的电脑上。你可以演奏笛子，你可以有一整个弦乐团。你可以拥有雪花飘落在喜马拉雅山顶上的声音，只要你想。这些都可以实现，你能够拥有这一切。这是好事。它并没有杀死你的想象力——如果你是一位艺术家，如果你是一位真正投入的艺术家。
网络，呃，是的，它对艺术家产生了威胁，因为任何人都能免费下载我们的音乐。不过这也挺好的。这就是它存在的方式。由此他们得以听到我们的音乐了，又或许某一天他们会想要实体了。他们会想要指尖真实的触感，目睹真实的画面，你知道，看到那些真实的CD、黑胶唱片。你可能已经发现了，黑胶正在经历一场复兴。在欧洲，我们卖出的黑胶比CD要多得多。像10年前，我们只能卖出CD，没人要黑胶：“不，那太老土了，我们才不要呢。”而现在完全相反。在中国也是这样吗？是的？所以说，这是一种新现象。
另一方面，它的好处在于，我们这些艺术家，比如他来自法国，他来自奥地利，我住在德国……但我们能够交流。我们能够与世界上任何一个人互相发送曲目音频。
Z：不过用数码的方式演奏是完全另外一种感觉。比如说，你可以录下摔碎一个玻璃杯的声音。你可以把它录在你的键盘里，然后按几个键，声音就出来了。但是在舞台现场表演要好玩得多。拿一个真的玻璃杯，拿一个麦克风，真的把它摔碎在地上。现场表演会更有意思。
J：是的。总体来说，现实的东西会比虚拟的更能打动人。你看看Facebook就知道了。我有……我不知道，6000个好友吧。我才没有6000个好友呢。现实生活中有两个好友我就很满足啦。我的狗，我的妻子，我的孩子，Zappi，Max，阿飞……
Z：我的车。
（众人笑）
J：“我的车和我的茶……”（哼唱）总之，你懂我意思就好了。现实和虚拟。我相信我们正一步步朝着虚拟的方向迈进。走在大街上，人人手上都拿着个手机。人们虽然走在一起，但我拿着手机，他也拿着手机。明明是在现实之中，却活在虚拟里。我想这就是未来。这很糟糕，它不会通向任何地方。

A：我们知道Maxime喜欢演奏一些奇奇怪怪的乐器。你能稍微向我们介绍一下吗？
M：首先，我在舞台上会演奏一些电子设备，还有吉他。有时候我也演奏hurdy-gurdy，有时还会加上一些效果。Hurdy-gurdy是一种诞生在1300年前的法国中部的古老乐器，不过你也能在东欧找到一些不同的版本。它可以说是一种带有转轴的小提琴。通过不同的琴弦，它能够发出一些连续单调的低鸣，但你也能用它创作出旋律。这是一种非常特别的乐器，因为它听起来很传统，而当你把麦克风放在它里面的时候，它可以发出一些像是在模仿哭声、尖叫声的声音。有时候它听起来像小提琴，有时候又像噪音。Hurdy-gurdy是一种非常特别也非常典型的乐器，我很高兴能把它带入到faUSt的音乐里。
J：这对faUSt来说是一个新的尝试。一个崭新的频谱。
M：我受到了一点来自Tony Conrad的小提琴的影响。他在演奏小提琴时保持一个曲调，但持续整整一个小时。有了Hurdy-gurdy，我可以做同样的事情。我在一个很长、很长、很长的调子里混进不同的低鸣，不同的音调和曲调……这是一种有着很多可能性的乐器。

A：你是faUSt的新成员。
M：是的。我来自法国，是一名视觉艺术家。我也是一名画家，也制作一些声音装置。我同时是一名音乐人。我年轻的时候听了很多摇滚乐，krautrock、faUSt、Tony Conrad，以及日本和美国的音乐。我是在2007年认识了Jean-Hervé和Zappi。在那之后，2010年，他们提议我与他们一起在活动和演唱会上演奏。
J：Maxime在我们的Avantgarde Festival上演出过，我们实际上是在那认识的。后来我发现他有来协助音乐节的准备工作，就像志愿者。他最开始就是我们的Avantgarde Festival的“黑奴”。后来他说他也玩音乐，并用一些玩具和噪音玩了一段，我才发现：“嘿，这家伙是个艺术家！”他也做一些视觉艺术，还有……总之，我们的友谊不断加深，然后我们就邀请他和我们一起演奏了，这很好，因为他会演奏hurdy-gurdy，又会视觉艺术，他也很强壮……
M：我是一个很好的劳动力，而他们嗅出了这一点。
（众人笑）
Z：而我就喜欢他俩凑在一起说法文，而我一句也听不懂。
（众人笑）
J：这是最好的交流。
Z：是的。

A：那么现在我想问你们最后一个问题：你们对于明天音乐节有什么印象？
J：关于明天音乐节，我能说的就只有：“竖起大拇指！赞！赞！赞！”非常棒，非常棒，非常棒！拜托你们了，千万不要停止做这件事情，并且保持它现在的样子，不要把它做大了——我个人觉得把它做大会是一个错误。它现在的样子就看起来非常完美了。它是高效的，技术上也无可挑剔，而且它仍是一个团队。仍是一个家庭。非常完美。我只能不断重复地感谢，再感谢。
Z：我喜欢这种，每晚只有不超过两支乐队演出。我很讨厌之前在其他音乐节那样，一晚上有好几支乐队，太多了。现在这样就很舒服。
A：谢谢你们。我们会继续下去的。

[1] Table of the Elements：一个由音乐制作人兼平面设计师Jeff Hunt创立于1993年的美国厂牌。
[2] Avantgarde Festival：Avantgarde Festival是由Jean-Hervé及其家人创立并策划的前卫音乐节，举办地为德国的席福尔斯特。现任策划人为其女Jeanne-Marie。

A: Thank you very much for your show. We are honored to have faUSt to perform in our festival. We have listened to your albums a lot, but it’s the first time for many Chinese fans to see your live performance and it was really impressive.
J: Thank you for inviting us. We are also very pleased and very honored to be invited so far away from home. Thank you.

A: During the concert, you played the recorded sentences such as “rund ist schön (round is beautiful)” and “this is the right way / this way is correct” in Chinese repeatedly. What’s the meanings of these lines?
J: Well, on one hand, they have philosophical meanings. On the other hand, they don’t have any meanings at all. It’s Dada.
So, if I say “rund ist schön”, it’s because of the sound — “rund - ist - schön” — there are different sounds in it, and I like this. And as for the philosophical aspect, it is true — everything that is round does not hurt. See, here is a corner, if I hit my head, this will hurt. But if it’s round then I won’t get hurt. Rund ist schön. Also pregnant women… when they are giving new life, it’s round. It’s beautiful. Round is eternal. There is no beginning, no end. So, this is why I have chosen this sentence. Actually it was our friend Fei over there. I asked him to record this, so that the audience can understand. Because some of you people speak English, the others in the audience may not. I wanted to make sure that they can understand as much as possible of what we are saying.
As for the other, “this way is correct” or “this is the right way”, there is a bit more Dada philosophy in it. And it’s also encouraging. It’s motivating. Whatever way you go, whatever way you choose to go, in music, or in life, or in politics, or at work, whatever way you choose, it’s good to have in your mind, “This way is the right way. It’s my way. It’s the right way.” So, it’s a positive thinking.

A: I saw some videos of your live performances. You often invite other musicians to join with you, like some local musicians, graphic artists and dancers. We found out whoever you cooperate with is strongly “faUSt”. What do you think of it? And how do you choose the artists to cooperate with?
Z: It’s true that everybody from our guests has a bit of “faUSt” music in them. Sometimes the guests come to us and ask to play with us. Mostly we have an idea because we know about the artists’ music and we ask them to play with us. Which videos did you see?
A: The live at BBMix Festival, also the Market Hotel live. And some other recent videos.
J: At the Market Hotel… Yes, in Brooklyn. We had Ysanne Spevack. She plays the violin. We met her in Los Angeles. You know, nowadays with internet and telephone, communication is easier… I remember, aha. She lives in Brooklyn. We met in Los Angeles but she lives in Brooklyn. We were going to Brooklyn so maybe I asked her.
Z: And one girl, Christine, a friend of mine. She lives in Brooklyn, also a singer of a band in New York. She visited us and I asked her if she wanted to sing a song with us. So Jean-Hervé told her about the story of the song. So, yes… I like to do this. She came up to the stage and sang a little, maybe for three minutes.
J: So most of time it is spontaneous. Spontaneousness is very important in faUSt.

A: Why did you invite Keiji Haino as your guest this time?
J: Because he is a very good old friend of us. We met him in 1994 in San Francisco. We were on the same showcase from Table of the Elements[1]. We were doing U.S.A. tour. Keiji Haino was young at the time and he jumped on the stage when we were playing in San Francisco, when we were doing “It’s a Rainy Day”. He jumped on stage and went “Whoooo!” like this. And since then, we have had a certain sympathy, a certain relationship. He is crazy in a way. He is a huge artist. I think we are also a bit crazy. So there are parallel, there are common things between Keiji and faUSt.

A: Could you talk about the first cooperation with Keiji Haino in Death Valley?
Z: It was in California, a desert. Each of us was standing on a hill in the desert and we called this performance “Long Distance Calls”. Very simple instruments or just voice. Keiji was just singing. I had a metal tube. I threw the metal tube in the air and then I caught it. And I remember Keiji was beside me on the hill, and one time it fell on his head, the metal tube… But it was OK, it was no problem for him. It was very very hot there. And I remember Keiji always had sunglasses in the 90s. Always, inside, outside. In the desert the sun was very bright, but he didn't wear them.
J: He is like a contrary man. When there is a lot of sun, he doesn't wear sunglasses. When it’s night and there is no sun, he wears sunglasses. Maybe it’s also Dada.
Z: Yeah, very funny.

A: We think that your live performances are very different from your albums. From the recent videos we see that you used unusual equipments on stage, like gas bottles, cement mixers, stones, kettles with boiling water… Why do you do this?
J: Well, first of all, I would like to say that I think artists don't realize exactly why they are doing things. It’s something visceral. It’s something that comes from the belly or from the heart, but It very seldom comes from the head. It’s not a calculation. Of course some artists do that but certainly we don’t.
But in the mean time we have discovered there are some reasons behind this. When we have the knitting ladies on stage, there are many reasons for that. Psychologically speaking, we like to put people off-balance. The audience should not feel “this is normal”. They should think, “What’s happening? What’s this? This is not normal.” And then they are attentive. They are off-balance. It’s not normal life. So, “We must listen, we must look.” So it’s a bit of a psychological trick. But also it has a very deep impact. The knitting ladies remind you of something primal, of when your mother was knitting and the world of you when you were a child was all peaceful and you felt secure. There was harmony because of this knitting. It’s like when cows are eating and the smell… you feel, “Oh, this is peace. I feel good.” So this is why we use this. When the audience came, they were all excited but they saw no faUSt, only knitting ladies, peaceful. They would focus.
You were talking about the cement mixer. Cement mixer is also full of symbols. Very strong and symbolic. It is like eternity, because with the cement mixer, you can build houses, build civilization. They go up, they go up. And then, boom, after time, they all collapse. Civilization disappears. And then they grow again. Home is a huge civilization. They are all over the world. And then, boom, they collapse. Genghis Khan was huge, all over the world. Collapsed. They come again and they collapse. It is eternity. The cement mixer does that. It turns and turns and turns and turns… make houses, they fall, and make houses again. Eternity. So. I could talk more about the cement mixer, but I won’t. And also there is a difference between the cement mixer — being very hard, very brutal , very industrial, and the knitting ladies — very soft, very domestic.
For the gas bottles, it is for two reasons. Optic, a bit of danger. But mainly it's for the sound. He (meaning Maxime) is the expert of gas bottle. He loves the sound of metal, he likes rough sounds. He is always combating with industry, with sound, with metal, steel, machine… He likes this very much, Maxime. The other side of Maxime is hurdy-gurdy, very soft, very complicated, refined.
Z: The tools and equipments we use in the concert now is lesser than in 90s and 2000s. We used a lot more tools to make music before, like steam hammer, jack hammer, engine cylinder and so on. It was for the sound. For example, a engine cylinder, “throoom-iiiillllll” (imitating the sound), and it makes fire. The sound is like people crying. So people would think, “Should I also cry?” It’s like crying in a very high tone. You can do it just with this tool. Also for the optic effect, because there is fire, spark. The main reason is the sound. I think since three years ago, we always have the cement mixer, sometimesthe engine cylinder, but no more very big machines to make fire. It is too dangerous. It is more forbidden to use on stages now then ten years ago.
J: For the reasons of health and safety. No sparks, no fire, no gas, no nothing. So they want faUSt, they want the devil, but they don’y want the danger. So we have to find the middle way. And I must say, here in China, in Shenzhen — it was our first concert in China — we did all to come back again. We have noticed that the promoters were taking risks, because you accepted everything we asked for. Cement mixer, “OK, we’ll do it!” Knitting ladies, “OK, we’ll do it!” Gas bottles, “Yes, we’ll do it!” And everything, everything, “Yes, yes, we’ll try!” So, a huge THANK YOU to the festival, to B10 Live, for your very efficient and friendly cooperation.
A: We would like to do our best for the performance as well, since it was your first performance in China and it was also very important for us.
J: It certainly came this way. It was perfect. We are very, very, very happy. Very happy. And it comes from the heart. All of us.

A: Thank you. During the interview with Keiji Haino, I’ve asked him questions about why he has asked us to play the CD of Mischa Elman, a Russian violinist, before the show. The music was very peaceful and he said that he wanted the audience to go into a peaceful mood and then to watch the show. It’s a little bit in common with what you’ve just said about the knitting ladies.
J: It’s very in common, yes! It’s the same. First create peace and focus, so people are prepared for chaos, for happiness, for joy, for exuberance, for absurd… Yes, it was a good idea of Keiji.

A: You’ve mentioned that you think “theatre is normal life on stage”, is that true?
J: Yes. That’s right. Yes! Ah, you remember this. I say that. That’s very true. When you put normal life on stage, it becomes theatre. When you put theatre on stage, it’s normal. And we like absurd. We like Dada.

A: There was a song you performed with Keiji on the stage. We know that its lyrics come from a poem written by your daughter. We also asked Keiji about it and he thought the lyrics are very interesting. You have also mentioned that you’ve let your daughter to organize your Avantgarde Festival[2]. Could you talk a bit about your daughter?
J: Sure. Jeanne-Marie was… When she was a baby, even when she was inside her mama, inside my wife, she was already with faUSt. She was already touring with us. So, she knows the avant-garde. She knows faUSt. She knows the festival. All her life. She was born with it. Even in 1994, when she was 4 years old, she came with us and did the whole tour.
And Keiji Haino fell in love with the baby, with my daughter. And she was, “Oh, Keiji, Keiji”, following him all the time. In New York, in the knitting factory, Jeanne-Marie was really sick. She had a fever. Keiji Haino threw everybody out of backstage, said, “Go, go, go, go! Only Jeanne-Marie.” Jeanne-Marie and Keiji. And he would hold her hand like this (holding Zappi's hand), the whole time. So, anyway… Yes, so Jeanne-Marie understands this kind of music. For her, it’s natural. That’s the way she was born.
Now she is 26. She is an accomplished art student and doing her master’s now. As we’ve being doing the Avantgarde Festival for 18 years, we are a bit tired of it. It costs a lot, a lot of energy. Well, you know this. The Tomorrow Festival. It costs a lot of energy and money. So we said, “Jeanne-Marie, you take over the festival and you do it your way.” And she does it the way young people do now. Not in one place, at one time, now they do the Avantgarde Festival in many places, in different times of the year. Small festival, everywhere, different times.
And as for the poem, it’s called “Harlekin[3]”. Harlekin is a fool. She wrote this Dadaist poem and I know Keiji has translated it into Japanese. When we did this piece at B10 Live, he sang it in Japanese and I sang it in French. I think it’s a very good poem, Dada, and also Fluxus.
A: We like that poem, too.
J: Thank you. I will say that to Jeanne-Marie. I will transmit all these to Jeanne-Marie.

A: What do you think of your performances on 14th and 15th? On 14th it was faUSt with the guest Keiji Haino and on 15th it was Tomorrow Improvisation Unit.
Z: For the faUSt show, it was our style. We made a setlist, but the whole show was not really on the setlist. There were changes. It was a normal faUSt show. What we did in the US tour was nearly the same, but…
J: The same spirit.
Z: Yes. The show and the music is very different. No show is like the other one.
And for the 15th’s, I think it was Keiji Haino’s idea. Keiji wanted to play this as a band show and he gave signals to us when to play — not what to play, but when. He did it very explosively. I remember one time he was playing guitar softly, and suddenly “NOW!” (in a very loud voice) The spirit went to each musician so everybody was “BOOM!”. Explosions. He did it well. It is the first time I played when another person said, “Now you play. And now you stop.” This is the first time in my life for 50 years I’ve been doing it.
J: I have tried many times to tell Zappi, “It would be good if you were playing now.” And he said, “No, I play when I want to.” “It would be good if you would play this sort of…” “No! I play what I want!” Never. And I knew him for 50 years and I have tried many times. And here comes Keiji and says, “You play.” And Zappi…
Z: Yeah. It works. I can do it. Sometimes. (all laugh)

A: On the stage, when Keiji was pointing to you, you needed to react right away, especially when Jean-Hervé was doing the vocals. We are wondering how could you react so quickly?
J: Well, somehow we are professionals and it’s not the first time we do this. On the other hand, I like to tell stories very much. See, I have five children. So, in my life, I have told many many many stories and I like to tell stories. Maybe someday I should write stories or tell stories for children. Keiji knows that, too. He wanted to be some vocal and he wanted another one, because vocals are very important in music. It’s not about the words, not about what you are saying, but the frequency of your voice. It’s different from other instruments and it touches people. It touches them somewhere here (heart), not here (head).
Z: It’s a kind of direct instrument, directly into people’s hearts.J: So, for me it’s easy. Before I went on stage, I chose a subject in my mind. I chose a big toad being in love with a frog. And then, that’s it. And the rest is a story. It’s easy. It comes, it comes, it comes, it comes…
A: It’s interesting, although we don't understand much French.
J: It doesn't matter. It’s about the frequency, the phrase, the expression… Words don't matter.

A: Yes. You’ve mentioned that there has been not many audiences for faUSt in Germany since the beginning. Did you have any expectations or thoughts about your first live in China, as it’s a very different country?
Z: Yeah, it’s true in Germany there has been not much interest on our music since the beginning. I don't know why. Some people say it’s because it is music from our own land so it’s not so interesting as music from other nations. But I don't think so. Lots of German bands had success. I really don't know why. Nobody knows why. Maybe it’s because we were first produced in England. Maybe that’s the reason. We were in England and we were much bigger in England than in Germany in the first years.
About China… I don’t know what can be done in China. I don’t know the laws. Is it forbidden to make fire on stage? Or will it be easy? I don’t know. I know Japan. In Japan it’s OK. We can do what we want in Japan. There’s no problem. China is a bit another thing, so I didn't know it. But I was surprised it’s very free. I didn't expect that it is so free in China. I felt very free here.
J: I didn't have any expectation, because I knew nothing about China except what we heard in Europe about it. Of course we’ve heard all kinds of things about China. I’ve heardhere about your festival. You are inviting artists that are a bit progressive, a bit avant-garde, all these. So, um… there was a bit in my head: how far can we go and how much can we talk? Then I realized when we arrived here, as Zappi was saying, it was easy. You can talk with people. You can do all kinds of things, you know. I didn't see one policeman here who might arrest us saying, “Your papers, please.” And I didn't see anybody, “You don't say that or I’ll put you in jail!” This is the kind of thing and I apologize for this, but it’s real. This is what many people think of what China is that you are not supposed to talk, not supposed to do this. And we were — as Zappi was saying — very very surprised how free it is here. This is what we thought.
And also people are extremely friendly. In Germany or even in France, if you walk in the street and you see somebody you don't know and you just smile, people get suspicious. “What do you want?” Here in China, old people, young people, women, men, children… when I pass I like to smile, and I smiled to a lot of people, and they always, always smile back. Also when I first arrived, I wasn't sure where I’ve put my passport, money, or telephone, and very soon realized that I could leave my money here, my phone there, my jacket here… Always somebody would come and say, “Oh, you forgot your thing.”
This morning — that was why I went away very quickly — my phone. I had forgotten my phone. I asked a lady who spoke Chinese to call my phone, hoping somebody may pick it up. She called and immediately there was somebody saying,“Yes, I found the phone. Where do you want to go?” We said, “We live in the hotel here.”“OK. I’ll be there in two minutes.” I mean, you try to do that in Germany. Maybe you will get the phone back, and maybe you won’t. And if you leave a lot of money on the table or things…
Z: For 90% it’s gone.
A: It’s the same here, actually.
J: Is it?
A: You were lucky.
J: Oh, OK. You are destroying a dream!
(all laugh)
J: But anyway, this is the impression I will keep.
A: Different cities, different cultures. Shenzhen is a very young city. It’s open.
J: Yeah, OK.

A: In the description of your band, we can often see “krautrock”. Although we’ve seen from some of your interviews that you don't like this definition, as promoters we sometimes just use it. Everybody is using it and they say you are the best of this kind of music or something like that. What do you think of this?
Z: I really don't know what “krautrock” is. It’s complicated for me to say which is krautrock and which isn’t. Many people say that music composed and played in Germany in the 70s was krautrock. But I don't think so. For example, people say Kraftwerk is krautrock, but their style of music is very different from ours. So why is this krautrock, and our music also krautrock? I don't know. I don't need this word, “krautrock”.
J: Yeah. It’s a bit of an insult. “Kraut” is the way the British people called the German people during the Second World War, you know, because in Germany we were supposed to eat a lot of sour cabbages, which was not true. It’s only true in south of Germany. But anyway, it’s a bit of an insult. That is why we don't like this. It’s like it would be an insult if we would say “slit-eye music” talking about Chinese music. It would be offensive. So, we try to take this with humor and we even made a song called “Krautrock”. You call us krautrock, OK, we are going to “krautrock” you! So, that’s the story about “krautrock”. I would prefer to call it experimental music. But “krautrock”, yes… And certainly it’s OK for the promoters to use “krautrock”, because it is something everybody understands in the press. So, it’s OK to call it “krautrock”. It’s not the best idea, but it’s OK. It’s totally OK.
Z: I’ve asked an Englishman what he thought is “krautrock”, and he thought it’s the music with a melody like a loop, and in this loop you make many noises, different noises. Maybe this is krautrock.
J: Do you know Tony Conrad? He passed. May his soul rest in peace. He was one of the people who created a genre of music called “minimalism”. He didn't discover it. Nobody discovers anything. It’s been here for millions of years. Minimalism exists everywhere, Mongolia, Inuit, in the between… because they didn't have many instruments but they have lots of time. They had to play something not to die out of boredom, and they didn't have many instruments, so it was very simple, minimal. But Tony Conrad, The Velvet Underground, John Cale and all those fancy people made it popular. So, in krautrock we also have some minimalism — this is what Zappi was saying, like very simple beats, “do-boom-do-doom, ku-chi-ka-doom-doom, ku-chi-ka-doom-doom…” Or may be one note, “Boom, boom, boom, boom…” So, it’s enough to trigger in you some emotion, and the rest is in your head — it’s you making the music, and we are just giving you trigger. Some of the musicians put whatever they want in the loops because it’s empty and you can put a lot in it. Yourself, and other musicians.

A: Do you think you are hippies?
J: I am.
Z: In the 60s I thought I was a hippie, but then in the middle of 70s, I thought I was not a hippie. Hippies are not really true.
J: What?
Z: Hippies were lying in the 60s.
J: F**k you, man!
Z: Many hippies said, “I am so free! I can do whatever I want!” But in their minds it wasn't true.
J: Well, I forgive him. Because I’m a hippie and hippies are forgiving. He doesn't know what he was saying. He doesn't know about hippies.
M: I’m not a hippie, absolutely not.
J: So I’m the only one.
M: I definitely like hippies. But Jean-Hervé you are not a hippie.
J: I’ve got a hippie jacket. I’ve got a dog. I like to walk barefoot.
M: But you are more positive and more intelligent than a lot of hippies.
J: OK. OK.
Z: You don't have free love.
J: I’d love to have free love.
Z: You’d love to “had” free love.
(all laugh)
J: OK. See, that’s why it is a very complicated question. So, most of the time when somebody asks questions to us here, I say yes, he says no, I say hello, he says bye-bye. And we are 50 years together.
A: That’s why you are together for so long.
J: Probably.

A: Do you think your music has been influenced by the rock music of England and America in 60s?
J: Uh, no… Yes, influenced in way that we didn't want it. No. No. We are not influenced by English and American Rock 'n' Roll.
Z: When we were young, when we were 16 or so, maybe. For myself, I’m a little bit influenced by this kind of music, yes. Everybody was listening to The Rolling Stones. May be you were not…
J: No, no, no, but for party, for dancing, for having fun. As a human, yes, but as an artist, there is something different. When you go to the disco, you know, you want to dance, you want to have fun, you don't think about creating art. But as a musician… Of course I’ve listened to all kinds of Rock 'n' Roll and I admire them. I’m not saying so, you know. Gene Vincent, BB King and all those true ones… I’m not sure about Elvis Presley and all these… different stories.
Z: But we don't try to play this kind of music.
J: There are a couple of artists from those days, like David Bowie, man, he was a great guy! Respect. Or Frank Zappa, he made very intelligent Rock 'n' Roll. I am influenced. I think everybody in faUSt is influenced. Some artists, yes. But, to answer your question, no we are not influenced by the Angelo-American Rock 'n' Roll. Quite on the contrary, we decided to avoid their structure and their lyrics. Captain Beefheart, Frank Zappa, good. Good people.

A: Somebody said that rock music as an art form was already dead in the 70s and now the technology and internet is killing the imagination and talents of the musicians. Now all the music is for entertainment. What do you think of this?
J: Uh, there is something true in your question. That is interesting, yes. The means of producing music and sharing music has radically changed. Just like everything in life, there is yin and yang. There is the positive and there is the negative. The cold, the warm, etc.
The digital world has the danger that anybody can create music, which doesn't mean that these music will be interesting. But you can. You just go on a Bandcamp or whatever you call that, you hit a few things and then, “boom”, you’ve got a song! So this is possible. But is it good music? I’m not sure. On the other hand, artists who are really dedicated to music, who are conscious of their responsibilities… Artists have a responsibility towards their audience. It’s not only having fun. It’s about having responsibilities. You are sending messages. It’s like talking to children. If you say wrong things, they will believe you. So, make sure you don't send shit to people.
Digital means of production have enlarged the possibilities. You can create new sounds. There are more instruments at your disposition, and in a very small place — in your computer. You can have a flute. You can have a whole string orchestra. You can have the sound of the snow falling on the top of Himalaya if you need. It’s all possible. You have them all. It’s good. It’s not killing the imagination — if you are an artist, if you are a dedicated artist.
The internet, uh, sure, it is a danger for the artists, because everybody now can download our music for free. But it’s cool. That’s the way it is. Because they listen to our music. Maybe someday they will want to have the haptic. They will want to have the real thing in their fingers, see the real picture, you know, see the CD, the LP. You may have noticed there is a renaissance of the vinyls. In Europe, we sell much more vinyls than CDs. Like ten years ago, we only sold CDs, nobody wanted the LPs, “No, that’s old school. We don't want this.” Now it’s the contrary. Do you have this in China? Yes? So, it is a new thing.
And also the great thing is that we artists, like he is from France, he is from Austria, I live in Germany…. but we can exchange. I can exchange tracks with anybody in the world.
Z: But that’s a different feeling to play digitally. For example, you can record breaking a glass. You have it recorded in the keyboards and you push the keys and the sound comes out. But it is much more fun on stage. Take a real glass, take a microphone, and crush it on the floor. It’s more fun to play.
J: Yes. In general, reality is more touching than virtuality. Look at Facebook, you know. I have… I don't know, 6000 friends. I don't have 6000 friends. I’m happy if I have two friends in reality. My dog, my wife, my children, Zappi, Max, Fei…
Z: My car.
(all laugh)
J: “My car and my tea…” (singing) So, you know what I am trying to say. Reality and virtuality. I’m sure we are going more and more towards virtuality. When I walk in the streets, everybody has a phone. They are walking together, but I have a phone, he has a phone. This is reality, but we are in virtuality. And I think that’s the future. And that’s bad. It’s going to nowhere.

A: We know that Maxime likes to play some strange instruments. Could you introduce a little bit about that?
M: Firstly, I play electronics and guitar on stage and I sometimes play hurdy-gurdy, sometimes with a little bit of effects. It’s an old instrument created 1300 years ago in the middle of France, but you can find some other versions in the east of Europe. It’s a sort of violin with a wheel on. And it creates some drone sounds with different strings, but you can make a melody with this instrument. It’s a very particular instrument because it sounds very traditional, but when you put microphone inside, you can have some imitation, like crying voices or shouting voices, sometimes like a violin, sometimes like noise. Hurdy-gurdy is very very special and typical, and I’m very happy to have broughtin this instrument with the music of faUSt.
J: It’s very new in faUSt. It’s a new spectrum of frequencies.
M: I’m a bit influenced by the violin of Tony Conrad. He played the violin like one tune but doing for one hour. With hurdy-gurdy, I can do the same. I have a long, long, long tune mixing different drones, different tonalities, different tunes… It’s a instrument with great possibilities.
A: You are the new member of faUSt.
M: Yes. I’m from France and I’m a visual artist. I’m also a painter and I make some sound installations. I’m a musician. When I was young I listened to a lot of Rock 'n' Roll, krautrock, faUSt, Tony Conrad, Japanese and American music. I met Jean-Hervé and Zappi in 2007. After a few years, in 2010, they proposed me to play in events and concerts.
J: Maxime played at the Avantgarde Festival. This is where we met, actually. And then I discovered he came to help to prepare the festival, like volunteers. He was the Avantgarde Festival’s “slave” at first. And then he said he also plays music and started to play music with toys and noise, and I discovered, “Hey, this guy is an artist!” And also making some visuals, and… So, our friendship grew and went deeper and deeper, and we invited him to play with us, which is great because of the hurdy-gurdy, of the visuals, his strength…
M: I’m a good worker and they smelled it.
(all laugh)
Z: And I like it when they two are speaking French and I don't understand anything.
(all laugh)
J: That’s the best communication.
Z: Yes.

A: We come to the last question: what’s your impression on Tomorrow Festival?
J: What I can say about Tomorrow Festival is, “Thumbs up! Up! Up! Up!” It’s great, great, great! Please don't stop doing it and try to keep it this way, not to make it bigger, which in my opinion would be a mistake. The way it is now seems to be very perfect. It’s efficient and technically perfect, and it’s still in team. It’s still family. It’s perfect. I can only repeat, “Thank you! Thank you!”
Z: I like that no more than two bands are playing in one night. I hated it when I was in another festival where there were several bands in one night. It was too many. So it’s easy.
A: Thank you. We will keep on doing this.

[1] Table of the Elements: An American label founded by music producer and graphic designer Jeff Hunt in 1993.
[2] Avantgarde Festival: The Avantgarde Festival takes place in Schiphorst, Germany. It was founded and curated by Jean-Hervé along with his family and the current curator is his daughter Jeanne-Marie.

文本信息 Text Information
来源 Source：采访录音 Recording of the interview
编辑 & 翻译 Editing & Translating：尹思卜 Midori Yin
校对 Proofreading：李桐慧 Anla Lee，陈力思 Johannes Dan
特别鸣谢 Special Thanks：杨波 Yang Bo